The u. K. Goes to the polls next month that is the election about great except for Health Wealth and education the conservatives are promising a deal to leave the e. U. Labors promising to tax the rich and increase social spending but what matters most for vs this is inside story. I know that and welcome to the program im the stasi attain now the u. K. s general election is less than 3 weeks away it was called by conservative Prime Minister barak johnson more than 2 years early in a bid to get a parliamentary majority so he can quote get it done his pledge on britains exit from the European Union is at the center of his partys Election Campaign Labor Party Leader Jeremy Corbyn is concentrating more on making britain a fair a society he has unveiled a radical public spending plan higher taxes for the rich and a crackdown on tax dodging well get into more of whats been promised by the policies talk a bit fast its hear from the 2 leaders get bricks arm and we can restore confidence and certainty to business and that is get done that will see a pent up tidal wave of investment into this country get rich that done and we can focus. On the priorities of the british people very is romana for a. Very thorough amount of growth grow to give greece very you know also to give hope to prepare all the right the wrongs that have happened over 10 years of historic 3 right now are introverted in the middle of. The area where i grew up. Or conserve your property. Running for a store or. A money 1st broke through a boardroom or written. On will be delivered for what the problem of the rest of us will have to probably for a while lets have a look at how the 2 major parties see the big issues now on bricks in the conservative party promises to get its deal through parliament by the end of december and leave the e. U. In january labor says it will come up with its own deal and put it to a public vote within 6 months and that would include an option to remain for as johnsons about a festive freezes the tax rate of 80 National Insurance and income tax while germany corbins will raise taxes for people earning more than 100000. 00 a year both parties have made a big pledge to the National Health system the tories are promising 50000. 00 more nesses labor is saying it will increase spending by more than 4 percent a year and labors announced a 5 115000000000. 00 fund to tackle Climate Change and to achieve most of its Emissions Reductions by the 2030s while the conservative partys recommitted to its goal of being Carbon Neutral by 2050. Lets now go to our guests joining us all from london we have tony travers fest a professor at the school of Public Policy in the department of government at the London School of economics we also have alan wager who is a Research Associate at the u. K. And changing europe policy think tank and we have sonia panelled author of just boris a tale of blonde ambition sonia was also the former deputy to parse johnson at the Daily Telegraph a warm welcome to you all now weve just outlined some of the major commitments in both parties manifestos but i didnt notice that the labor partys manifesto is about well nearly double the length of the tory party is manifest or and i always feel like Boris Johnson would have wanted to have just handed out leaflets that said bricks it get it done sonia how much of this election is about bricks it. Well i think its all about brets it really i mean Boris Johnson has always wanted to be Prime Minister brit is his vehicle i happen to believe that he doesnt actually believe in it i was his deputy at the Daily Telegraph used to write very critical pieces about the. Community as it was then but he he is also very sympathetic towards the Great Projects however saying that publicly was not going to help him become Prime Minister so it is all about bricks it but the other thing the extraordinary thing about Boris Johnson is that as long as ive known him since the 1990 s. And even before that he always wanted to be Prime Minister thats always been his chief aim is what got him up in the morning and kept him late at night but the lady with thing is its never been clear what he wanted to do once he became Prime Minister and i suspect that this very thin manifest as we see it is cold impossible that there isnt a johnson isnt apart from it well any only aspect of johns nism is creating buzz johnson is a Prime Minister there isnt really any kind of body of ideas will thoughts of philosophies that define his approach to politics apart from his own self advancement and in a way i think the manifesto is a reflection of that and if people are expecting all these years of astaires to all the hardship that weve been through as a british people to end as a result of this manifesto is changes very very little i think they will be very disappointed and i think going through with Boris Johnsons terms will actually make us poorer and it will be harder therefore to bring back person as a cohesive united fairer country im really quite worried about this were going to drill down into some of those policy suggestions from both parties in mind but i do want to stay with us just from moment here tony its been nearly 3 and a half years since that referendum and it did seem to take a lot of people by surprise that 52 percent and decided to vote for leave do you think that this has caused a bit of a reckoning in british politics a bit of an existential crisis and has that changed anything Going Forward. Or the difficulty the brics vote back in june 26th created was that nobody had a fully worked through picture of what bricks it would be that how the United Kingdom would indeed leave the European Union and the whole of british politics since then has been struggling with that difficulty this election doesnt really take is that much further forward even though bracks it is an overlay on the election with the conservatives with this regularly repeated theme getting breaks it down which actually means really Getting Started and the labor Party Offering a source of potential way to a 2nd referendum the liberal democrats the 3rd party effectively saying to stop the whole process and go back to the u. K. Simply being in the revoking the whole process so bracks it remains an issue it really is an issue in british politics but going back to something funny or said and i agree with this the. Conservatives here in their manifesto are simply trying to say vote for us well get rates down then everything will be fine and wonderful but of course its not at all clear how the money can be found for any of these parties actually to pay for the kind of improvements in public spending that theyre promising particularly given that the u. K. Economy is now growing many european economies are actually growing more slowly than they used to alan just staying with banks that for one more question here i do want to ask you this because you worked on the role of the u. K. In europe if we were to have a referendum tomorrow what what would happen what it believes what it may remain. I think right now the most opinion polls indeed almost all opinion polls for the last 12 to 18 months or so and thered be a slight remain leave but the can and a slight majority for remain if there was a referendum tomorrow but that wont necessarily translate into this election which is basically a referendum in a couple of weeks and thats because although jones has managed to effectively in the campaign thus far unite but is who are in favor of leaving the European Union they remain voters remain split fundamentally between the labor party although they gathering an increasing number of votes most remain as the liberal democrats and over the next couple of weeks as this Campaign Progress which will ultimately be a sort of form of a referendum on bricks if you like the key battle be whether or not the labor party can hoover up a whole load more of those remain voters as well as trying to gain back a couple of those lead voters some of those leave voters from the from the conservative party and thats why were seeing this really big tussle between economic agenda on the one hand from the labor party and Boris Johnson trying to make this election all about bricks it well when you talk about these Economic Issues and we will come to some spending issues just now but there has been all this frustration with with practice and how long its taken and theres been the teeth samia that set in around that but now some polls are also talking about different social issues that might be superseding rex it as a priority for some british voters as particularly issues around health care tony whats driving british voters primarily as they go to the polls and. Well its to you in a in a sense when you get to a general election even with an issue as important as bricks it the truth is other things come into play the u. K. Has had 9 years of austerity reduced public spending which has had particular effects on the state u. K. As a relatively small state by european standards and so what weve now got is a kind of upwards option really with the Political Parties saying well the brics its come to an end we can spend more on the n. H. S. National Health Service hugely important in british politics its also on education and a whole range of other issues building more railways and transport infrastructure now then the question is how does the electorate pick between these offers and decide how far is realistic with some of these manifestos really to increase public spending and investment as fast as particularly the labor party and the liberal democrats are proposing so youve got a kind of curiosity here which is that rex its still there but were also now trying to deal with well whats going to happen to the rest of Public Policy in the coming years and will as the conservatives are saying breaks it liberates all this extra public spending or are they really 2 separate issues which frankly i think they are well i do want to take a look at a graph just to take a temperature of where voters are at the moment and this is the latest Election Tracker from you gov and from their polling and it shows the tories in blue with a relatively substantial lead over labor who are also in red but then if you go back to where those lines cross over that thats july and thats when barr stands mccain Prime Minister so let me ask you sonia is this conservative party leader being driven by Boris Johnson. Well it would appear so math inc a lot of people i mean to my amazement sometimes it has to be said think oh good old boy was a he someone to get things done hes hes quite the man i saw tweeted earlier thats the kind of comment that some people say i think if they actually looked into what he promises and how many times hes broken his promise or how many times hes been fine hes been fans of mess and misled the public i think then people start to change their minds but you know normal people out there strangely enough dont spend all day watching t. V. Or reading twitter or reading the newspapers dont necessarily keep an eye on whats actually going on they form their impressions from personalities and in a sense Boris Johnson has almost a cult of personality the good old boys are things so its got to the point where a bit like donald trump in the states that could do almost anything will be found to be lying about almost anything and for a significant number of people in the u. K. Its almost as if it doesnt matter and this is an extraordinary place of british politics to have a right but i think that is where we are what you do about it from the other side isnt quite clear yet some people say well you have to attack back with the personality of your own some people say thats Jeremy Coleman i happen not to grieve but some people say it is some people say you have to keep going on about the policies thats the only way to get it Boris Johnson but i mean the fact is he has been caught to have misled the public that queen poem and and yet they use all these points ahead in the polls it is really quite astonishing in some ways all of this is essential question then about the political discourse thats taking place in britain and do you feel allan that the social fabric of britain has changed in the last 3 and a half years and the level of political discourse and i know weve now weve just been talking about weve seen this huge in the radical perhaps the most radical and labor manifesto in peace time especially when it comes to public spending and ever perhaps do you feel like the level of political discourse is pushing and that the 2 major parties father to the ends of the political spectrum. It is really a sort of case of economic populism from the labor party against social populism from the conservatives and the one group the one were going to zation has been exasperated so far by both the major parties manifesto is the i. F. s institute for fiscal studies he say the conservatives arent willing to deal with the big structural issues in the economy and theyre saying that labors approach just isnt realistic in its ability to deal with those challenges in the face of a tightening budget for the for the u. K. Government and in the long term and i guess i guess i guess its i guess its going to be a real big battle over the next couple of weeks over whether this economic or social populism wins out there some signs the some red lights on the dashboard for the for Boris Johnson his his lead over Jeremy Colvin is narrowing in the opinion polling over the last week or so on who would make the best Prime Minister some aspects of this manifesto jeremy corbins of percy popular on their own as individual items of Public Policy so its not actually clear as things crystallize over the next couple of weeks that this message of get bricks it done will survive what is going to be a 2 weeks of pretty intense campaigning well if as alan says well the institute of festivals fiscal spending has said that labor party is manifesting a semi not credible and is also raising questions about the tory manifesto and tony let me ask you then is this about then moving away from the 2 party system what it what a vote is choosing here is that now run for them up towards independence to the lib dems to other small a potties. Well it would appear not actually if you look at the graphs that you were showing a moment ago the total of the. Conservative and labor votes is around or over 70 percent and one of the curiosities of this election is it looked at one point as if the liberal democrats and the breck sit party of a sort of very hard pro breaks it line was somehow going to break through and here we are more than half way into this Election Campaign and the conservatives in labor are yet again dominating and i think actually Something Else thats interesting the going on in in this campaign is that the conservative party in particular is trying to migrate to being a somewhat Different Party to the one that many of its traditional members joined it for in this election theyre trying to win many leave voters in the middle and in the north of england from the labor party that often in traditional labor voting areas and that of course requires the reorientation of the conservative party traditionally a party of tax cuts and business now to being a party of smaller tax cuts less business but actually more sort of social care and Social Security for lower income households and places that have been left behind apparently according to a lot of evidence about why people voted for breaks it in the middle in the north so weve got the conservative party which is a remarkable institution a very long standing Political Party always able to reinvent itself trying to reinvent itself but labor under its particular leader many of its own m. P. s not terribly supportive of the current leadership not quite sure how to respond to that and i suspect they wont know how to respond to after the general election if theyve done better than theyre expecting then they might try to carry on as now if not they might try to change themselves in some way as well and were talking about the conservative party trying to reinvent itself let me ask you sonny is it working have they managed to do. Well i mean depends what you call working and a lot of traditional choices science has been saying do not like the direction in which the conservative party is now going so you see some independents i dont grieve and david gore former cabinet ministers who are now standing as independents which is you know when you call inching they may have a chance i think particular maybe dont agree that getting back in as an independent rather goes against the general swing of it being a tory versus Labor Party Election the other interesting thing thats going on in these are the sorry which is a county just outside london affluent leafy traditionally tory now we see that some of those 3 m. P. s are under threat to the liberal democrats and so you have everything shifting the old certainties of a british political life no longer exist so the north like that weve just been discussing could well go more tory the south could well go more labor i think where we end up is a very difficult thing to say but i think one thing we can say is that the tory party will no longer be the broad church it once was i mean all of the candidates who are standing for the tory party of have to sign almost in blood that they will. Vote full to burst johnsons deal so you know we no longer have that kind of consensus and coalition of different voices in the tory party will be. More right wing party it will be i think calling it a one Nation Tory Party will turn out to be very innocuous in deed and i think it will eventually also be punished for the fact that it says get brett sit down now but as tony said earlier that what that means is get started i mean if we go on with this were going to have for exit dominating everything for years i think once people realize that i wonder whether the tory party as we call it now will exist in the medium term i want to talk about undecideds because theres been talk of an extraordinary. A number of people are undecided in the selection and were talking here about a lack of certainty about a whole range of different issues and how decisive will those votes be i say just after the last debates that a few more of them just a narrow margin swung towards corben rather than johnson how decisive will that be for the outcome. The key group of voters that is currently most undecided is labor voters in the last election who voted leave so that means that both parties are targeting those voters with their core message is Boris Johnson saying those voters vote for me ill get burks it done jeremy colby sort of persuade those voters with a whole string of economic measures that they should forget about brics it and vote for economic equality instead as theyve done previous in previous elections and thats the big move a quarter of those voters are undecided again Something Like 9 or 10 percent of conservative remain as so over the next couple of weeks the big Battle Ground is going to be those particularly those voters as you said in the middle and in the north they could be decisive in the key constituencies and still havent yet made up their mind well as theyre all deciding presumably theyre going to be trying to decide who they can trust as well and both johnson and suffer from an issue of trust and i remember johnson rather famously said hed rather be dead in a ditch than miss the bricks at deadline and hes well hes not dead in the ditch and well lots of polls also suggest that people dont particularly like Jeremy Corbyn so how crucial is trust and the is ideas of this cult of personality when people are making those decisions on december 12th how important is trust cheney well theres no doubt the public does believe that trust is important and indeed the institutions of u. K. Government parliament and government you know the u. K. Government is was a subset of parliament where all the members of parliament and against that backdrop the publics relative lack of trust. In m. P. s perfectly m. P. s members of parliament as a group is a profound challenge but of course a saw earlier on Boris Johnson in particular though he has relatively low Approval Ratings there were dont know where near as low as germany corbins. But the truth is sonny said earlier Boris Johnson does seem to have this remarkable willing capacity of people to say well of course i dont trust him but i do like him and that is an amazing lucky asset for a politician in a competitive democracy now whether that will play all the way through to election day i mean as alan said the husband some narrowing in the actually its in the Approval Ratings particularly were Boris Johnsons become a bit less popular than it was and jeremy couldnt well actually he was unpopular but hes got a bit more unpopular jerricho been very unpopular slightly less so theres a bit of narrowing bartz the truth is that its a broader political issue that people feel that politicians say one thing and then do Something Else or untrustworthy and thats a systemic issue that u. K. Politicians parliament in particular needs to address i see you nodding their son and i want to ask this as as my final question which is really around the mood of the nation and feels like rex its gone on for such a long time of the discussions around rex that that there has been this this erosion of trust a huge broad level of disillusionment across and across the electorate and as we go into this election when out just under 3 weeks out i want to take stock because that elections are also about hope i imagine Going Forward feeling like things could change for the better so let me ask you this then do people care right now about politics do they feel that its an important relevant part of their lives and do they have hope Going Forward as. Because those ballots understand the 12 i as a really good question i think people really tourne that i think theyre terrified about the future but they always turn the radio off will shut the newspaper during going to because theyre terrified of what they might read i think people are quite frightened theyre quite down as to where were going as a country letting any of us action Going Forward feeling like things could change for the better so let me ask you this then do people care right now about politics do they feel that its an important relevant part of their lives and do they have hope Going Forward as they cast those ballots understand the 12 has a really good question i think people are really tourne that theyre terrified about the future but they always turn the radio off will shut the newspaper during going to because theyre terrified of what they might read i think people are quite frightened theyre quite down as to where were going as a country where you know any of us action Going Forward feeling like things could change for the better so let me ask you this then do people care right now about politics do they feel that its an important relevant part of their lives and do they have hope Going Forward as they cast those ballots understand the 12 i as a really good question i think people are really tourne that theyre terrified about the future but they always turn the radio off will shut the newspaper during going to because theyre terrified of what they might read i think people are quite frightened theyre quite down as to where were going as a country letting any of us. Action Going Forward feeling like things could change for the better so sonia let me ask you this then do people care right now about politics do they feel that its an important relevant part of their lives and do they have hope Going Forward as they cast those ballots understand the 12 i as a really good question i think people are really tourne that theyre terrified about the future but they always turn the radio off will shut the newspaper during going to because theyre terrified of what they might read i think people are quite frightened theyre quite down as to where were going as a country where you know any of us action Going Forward feeling like things could change for the better so let me ask you this then do people care right now about politics do they feel that its an important relevant part of their lives and do they have hope Going Forward as they cast those ballots understand the 12 i as a really good question i think people are really tourne that theyre terrified about the future but they always turn the radio off will shut the newspaper during going to because theyre terrified of what they might read i think people are quite frightened theyre quite down as to where were going as a country where you know any of us. Do hope isnt really short supply now im rather surprised that someone hasnt stood up on a plot from somewhere and say we doesnt have to be like this we could be better here and yet no one is painting that vision i feel were very blessed with our politicians at a time when we need to more than ever and were going to leave it there for now and then im sure hes speaking to you all and coming out with this ongoing discussion about the future of britain thank you to all of our guests tony travers alan wager and swung our panel and thank you too for watching you can see this program again any time by visiting our website aljazeera dot com and for further discussion do go to our Facebook Page thats facebook dot com for trash a. J. Inside story and you can also join the discussion on twitter handle is at a. J. Inside story for meanest on detail and the whole team here by phone or. My. Im counting the cost as russia uses mercenaries in calling places from syria to libya the future of war aramco if inflow of 2. 00 trillion dollars puts the saudi state owned oil on the ballot but costs googleplex on the big guns in the gaming industry counting the cost on aljazeera. Aljazeera as Investigative Unit goes undercover in the caribbean we dont know if they were bribed would just use a token of appreciation exposing trade and diplomatic passports today just to work 50. 00 hot than the price will go to war over not involving some of the regions highest officials murtha who work. With. Aljazeera investigations diplomats for sale. Aljazeera. Swear every. So im fully back to bill in doha with a look at our main stories on are just the United Nations is calling for carmi eastern democratic republic of congo after hundreds of protesters in the city of beni stormed un buildings and set fire to the Mayors Office at least 4 people were killed by gunfire but the u. N. Denies that its peacekeepers shot anyone so higher are reports on why the compound was talking it the old this is the moment protesters in beni were shot from inside a United Nations compound by the own people accuse the u. N. Mission in the democratic republic of congo
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