Defending a racist immigration policy. Dominic touch inskeep thank you for joining me on up front youre an m. P. And an m. E. P. Elect for polands law and Justice Party which was recently reluctant to government and which is often criticized for being anti immigrant anti refugee but actually youre not anti immigrant and refugee youre ok with White Christian immigrants from ukraine and youve taken around 2000000 of them in youre just not ok it seems what brown muslim refugees from the middle east white people find brown people not find theres a word for that isnt there dominic. Good evening thank you for having me it has nothing to do with. It hasnt it hasnt it has nothing to do with the religion i keep repeating it for last 4 or 5 years its all about safety and the common sense its not law its not about ukrainians who are allowed to come to poland its about Illegal Migrants who wants to cross our borders and if youre brown and white yellow wall or whatever if you want to cross our border illegally youre not allowed we are reacting well 1st of all plenty of people are coming into your illegally as Asylum Seekers you have a legal right to asylum from places like syria but you say its not about religion you said quote we will not receive even one muslim because this is what we promised you didnt say Illegal Immigrants you said we will not receive even one muslim it has nothing to do with the muslim religion its not islamophobia is someones trying to tell us its all about this moment and this fight that at 2015 started this madness and now this is a problem about muslims mainly coming to europe im surprised they are not going to saudi arabia qatar or any other rich muslim countries that would they would feel much better. You say. I mean follow the law the e. U. Has a law theres a Refugee Convention theres a universal declaration human rights. Advocate general which advises the European Court of justice found this week that your country broke in 2015 when poland refused to share the refugee burden so its your country your government dominick thats undermining European Values european laws no immigrants not refugees not muslims. No not at all this judgment was not about poland only was about hungary and others and also this judgment descended was about all countries which did not fully the expectations you have to remember that the quota systems were a system which failed was very clear about the numbers so even germany and france did not receive as many as they should for us that was very clear in 2015 we promise that we will never agree for a quarter system and our promises are are kept the whole migration crisis its a global think europe is not responsible for what is happening in syria poland is not responsible for this what is happening in iraq in syria in other other places we never had any colonies so if this problem is a global problem where is saudi arabia where is qatar where are the outer arab countries reach our countries which should help they can help as a great example 100000 tents used only once a year during depot pilgrimage 4000000 people can take this shelter and leave their 4 year there empty nice nice beautiful tents air conditioned tents they are empty well you do realize that lebanon has taken in tiny lebanon taken over a 1000000 syrians one in 5 of the population in lebanon is a refugee turkey has more Syrian Refugees than any country in the world so must the majority go to summer during the summer i agree with you you also say in another interview that this is about Christian Culture this is about europe being christian now you tell me no its all about legality i feel like youre all over the place are you objecting to from syria because theyre not christian or because they know they shouldnt be in poland which one you seem to be all for different excuses the different you have to apply polish law is very clear about it submit your documents apply for a visa get the back criminal back and then we going to decide we are not forced by any law to agree for that. Its the same in america even if you have a visa and youre trying to enter u. S. You still you still might here no youre not allowed and theres no explanation no one from of from the u. S. Side they dont have to really. They dont understand why youre not allowed myself they dont with us if you settle for if you havent decided if you will no longer see. If you have an bragged about the fact that you dont have mosques in poland i mean it sounds like you dont want them there because they were muslim and islam ok so let me let me go through the legal path to the society so legally you have to apply legally youre allowed to apply and this is up to us if we agree to to have you in poland thats number one then our society our structure i keep repeating that in many mosques we can hear about the draw for us to cite the Christian Society is a value for me. Multicultural society its not a value i used to live in london i used to live there for 5 years i used to work in us and i see the fruits of multiculturalism for me its not a its not a very choose for me its not a value so we have a right to think about our future in a way we want to so Christian Culture roman law greek philosophers these are devoted differentials for us its funny that you know its funny that you mention can i jump in once again the sharia law in europe ok i am i am i dont remember let me finish i mean lives in your country doesnt mean you have sharia law you mentioned london the mayor of london is a muslim does the sharia law let me ask you this you mention london some would say its hypocritical that you dont want muslims in poland because i mean are you having the sharda spread i mean finish your question let me finish the question and he would say its hypocritical that you say you dont want muslim immigrants in your country because they commit crimes theres a Security Threat and yet you hear exactly the same rhetoric about polish immigrants in the u. K. From right. When politicians and media that they say the polls are groping women theyre feckless to criminals they wont integrate dont you see the irony or the hypocrisy of treating muslim immigrants to poland in the same way that some jail them some british children treat polish immigrants ok how many poles blow themselves up in london or any other place in the world thats the question i keep read there is a lot of crime carried out by the whole issue of what is according to the right wing that and others because of their religion or help it dominate your argument doesnt work just last month no no no no no no i mean. Well many of them blow themselves up ok let me answer your question in this way a polish immigrant was charged with the rape and murder of a british student last month how would you feel if people in the u. K. Started saying we dont want poles there anymore we dont want rapists and murderers here thats what you say about most of your generalize about all muslims in the same way that some on the right in the u. K. Generalize about polls theres a lot of polish racism in the u. K. Do you not see the irony that you are doing the same thing to muslims as is done to poles. No no 1st of all if someone if anyone committing a crime should be jailed it doesnt matter as a polish english or anyone else thats number one crimes which you mentioned are not committed in the name of a law. They are just criminals we talk about here details but why not number one why not going to wonder why i dont know i wonder what i should have. Realized about was it not the terrorists as you know. Almost terrorists are muslims thats not true as you know in fact thats not true in the most of the far right terrorist attacks of the us this year were from a committed a crime they should be its funny you say most terrorists are muslim this is one of the worst terrorist attacks that we saw was in new zealand. One of the worst terrorist attacks this year due to the high profile was the murder of more than 50 muslims in new zealand by a christian far right white supremacist and hes jailed. Some muslims are jailed as well whats your point should i blame all White Christians on a new zealand did my point is that they the difference between our reaction after Day New Zealand was condemnation i do condemn that everyone condemning it after the terror attacks we can hear from a mum. Thats fair fred because you know and they want to kill all the nothing lies. Between what a lot of people is a. Terrorist can just google it just google it ok you can google also the Charlie Hebdo ok ok you say this is this is a lie it is a lie just a little of it i will use ok. You got hate preachers there are just indeed means all in moms though you said all the moms clapping let me ask you this dominick off to the Charlie Hebdo attacks you had the king of joy you know you dont have high preachers in the Christian Churches thats not true either of the Charlie Hebdo attacks you had the king of jordan the Prime Minister of turkey the foreign minister of egypt the president of the Palestinian Authority numerous leaders from the most a majority will literally march through the streets of paris in solidarity with the non muslim victims of those attacks i dont remember seeing you or any other member of the polish government marching in Christchurch New Zealand in solidarity with the muslim. I dont know missing you marching in Christ Church all the solidarity all the solidarity candles and all this painting on the floor its a joke but where we all need this guy was you know i dont remember seeing. Dometic i remember seeing you with a polish government marching in new zealand why didnt you do what we Muslim Leaders did because most. Of the needed marches we have our borders which are safe thats got nothing to do with the question christian far right nationalist carried out an attack in new zealand if you will saying muslims should condemn a muslim attack which they did why didnt you go to new zealand and condemn that attack why did you watch like Muslim Leaders did in paris why did you march in question. Think that this muslims this preachers this is moms are so peaceful let them go to saudi arabia let them go to qatar if you want to be a refugee you have to flee to the free state country neighbor country then you have to apply you have to prove who you are and now we are having people in europe which is not poland is not a neighbor of syria without documents or with 5 passports the same picture and different names thats just a fact from our interview ministers so its all about safety you are trying to put the whole subject in a box of islamophobia even even if no believe are going to book this we will not let him in if he is illegal thats let me go back to my question which you avoided answering the Christ Church shooter was an immigrant he was a christian he was a white nationalists who killed muslims and he had on his weaponry references to a bottle in which a king of poland defeated muslim invaders he had the name of a polish military commander of one of his weapons so i ask again why didnt you according to your own logic go to christ and disown him say this has nothing to do with us nothing to do with poland or christianity thats what you expect of muslims why didnt you do that in new zealand i ask again thank you very much thank god for King Sobieski stop muslims in vienna thank god the. World by the way and im not going to react on any who is trying to use our beautiful history for a terror attack a market muslim say the same do you dont see the logic of your position. Says about one of them not not at all. When i got asked a question and i want to talk about the broader cultural point because you have said in a previous interview this is about culture this is about preserving Christian Culture in europe im saying to you White Supremacists of carried out horrific terrorist attacks this year in El Paso Texas San Diego California Christchurch New Zealand and they have talked about stopping mosques stopping the invasion of muslims protecting Christian Culture its virtually the same language that is used by your party and by you there is an overlap we can see that with our eyes its the same rhetoric. The difference is the difference is were not shooting if someone is a terrorist or killer a criminal should be jailed youre not shooting but are you inciting the violence by using that rhetoric of invasions and stopping most you not do not compare me to the criminal im comparing the rhetoric not you im saying the rhetoric is similar is it not or are you denying that it sounds like youre agreeing 1st of all as i said its not its against our law thats number one its against our culture and that culture is very important as i told you we are Christian Country we dont want he dry in poland we dont want poland being taken over by muslims buddhists or someone else for us christianity is identity our d. N. A. Is a very important and our government has a right to say no and no one will ever force us to take muslims buddhists nonbelievers in huge numbers. But we are helping by sending money because our government is very straight we have people help we have to help in the place of the conflict in syria in iraq thats it do not force us to do things which our society doesnt want thats why our government was elected thats why we have one double intelligence he thanks for joining me on outfront. Another year another controversy about the veil in from after a mother was verbal abuse by a far right politician during her sons school visit to a Regional Assembly the debate over the veil islam and secularism in france has kicked off once again with one journalist even comparing the hit job to a nazi uniform so is this really about head coverings or secularism or given the recent attack on a mosque and from a former member of marine le pens far right party its really about french muslims being constantly demonized some sort of enemy within joining me to debate this our. International Human Rights Research are focusing on religious freedom and Civil Liberties and benjamin had a director at the Atlantic Council and the former d. C. Representative of president emanuel mccrum president ial campaign thank you both for joining me in the arena reman you heard the president of this Regional Assembly who belongs to marine le pens far right party when you heard of this verbal attack that he made on a muslim mother wearing his job on a school trip accompanying her kid demanding she take it off in the name of french secularism before he and others from his party stormed out of the chamber what was your reaction how surprised were you. I was not surprised but at the same time i realized that we have again and maybe even more reach a point of no return. When you see the reaction of this person in how we amplify a problem that actually is not really a problem when i so this kid crying this mother was with her kid somewhere and got her son well there. She was just literally giving her free time to help our understaffed underpaid teacher to go with kids and helping the staff and being treated that way my 1st reaction was this is getting worse where are we going this is not my country its getting worse the Council President s actions benjamin led to widespread condemnation from would you add your voice to those kind of the yes absolutely i mean this is a humiliation of a woman who exactly is remiss said was accompanying her kid to School Giving her free time to Public School this is actually a sign of integration in the way its pretty surprising to the life of the community so i think on this there is widespread agreement that she should not have been treated this way prison why she said it was humiliating and the spokesperson said it was a shame on the republic so there is there is but its Education Minister who did condemn the abuse then went on to say its not forbidden by the law but the headscarf is not desirable in our society its a simple how does our mother supposed to feel when the Education Minister comes out and says that has a cover yes but so on so this is it it is a very complicated question so you know theres a few things i mean 1st in france you know you have a tradition of secularism and separation strict separation of church and state thats only reinforced by a law 15 years ago saying that no ostentation sign religious science should be in within the Public Service within the school or within a city hall for example and that goes for the head job but also for a keeper for a visible cross and you know. This goes back to a long tradition in france that actually is mostly by the Catholic Church in muslims this is not muslims being singled out and it is not but it is true that we have a hard time having a rational debate about this and i regret the fact that each time you have these controversies those singled out do muslims in fronts feel singled out by the secularism argument absolutely and the problem the irony is most certainly want to be applied as in relation to these here to protect religious freedom but we are witnessing a transformation of a city into a legal mound that it was not aimed to be when the law was implementing and this is dangerous because here we have religious freedom at stake but also. Constant harassment and target of a part of our population to whom we say we do not belong so unless you look at the do you recognize that description constant targeting and harassment of a section of the population french muslims well i think. Its true that the debate has shifted to a place where theres lots of confusion and it targets islam and muslims and theres lots of mixes i completely agree with that the law is there and we dont need to extend the law but there is a 2nd question which is on a personal basis i was on the 4th offical basis what did occasion minister say what a lot of feminist leaders see liberal leaders in france say is that they dont see this as desirable or this think that in a society this is seen as something that could be a sign of betrayal coarsest design is extreme religious conservatism would you accept that description them up there there are minorities every religious community. But if you want to call it observed a reaction to regressive who liberals have a trouble dealing with my 1st question would be. Who decides what he does or rebel or not these constant idea that only one group of people decide for the other we are going to free you but on our terms this is not limited to me when your critics say society decides the public decide its a democracy right now to a recent poll found that 2 thirds of people in france so they would be in favor of banning the headscarf on school trips so as much as possible crime might agree with it hes going against Public Opinion on that well what is Public Opinion when those polls are done right after huge controversy and we can see that after a president ial election except let me tell you what happened on the ground without its mothers there would not be there would not be any school trips they give that time let me tell you something maybe even more sad. When a muslim woman where he job and when she cleans the toilet of the next c. E. O. Who will come and be able to work in clean of is when a muslim woman wearing a hijab take care of our elders because literally nobody want to take that jobs nobody cares about the hey job this is nice lay in our fat who bring us pastries every morning however assume that this woman or their kids 2nd 3rd generation who studied in the school of the rep of big who know their right start to be visible to know their right to move along to love france we tell them hold on a 2nd you do not fit in our society we are going to decide how you will fit but you also know that a lot of these women who have been tremendous success of integration as you mentioned also sometimes the most vocal saying that they want to push back against salafi groups of religious conservatives were actually sometimes the most hawkish on the head job in the french conversation thats something that doesnt really transpire sometimes to france but you have a lot of secular muslim women who say that they feel pressure if we are frightened that you know if we talk about experiences on the ground you also have religious leaders going to mayors asking to have separate hours in public swimming pools between men and women you have a lot of young girls who dont want to sit in biology classes in schools because they feel pressure from their parents or from their from their brothers you have neighborhoods where you have a form of religious conservatism that has imposed itself and that makes it very complicated for young women and you know other groups which is gays are g b ts to express themselves and so as you said who decides once again i do think that the law we have right now is correct but i think its also acceptable for people feminist strategic ation minister people in the political debate to say you have a right to do this but we also have a right to say that there are certain behaviors that we consider to not be a good sign of integration as an outsider youre both from. When i look at the french debate i think ok you can have interesting debates about feminism and job that happening all over the world perhaps more intensely in front of other places but big picture just the other day a guy was stopped from entering a mosque where he planned to massacre a group of muslims he crows are on the rise across western europe when thats the context youre operating in is it really the level of attention and coverage and political debate given to an article of clothing worn by women in a Minority Community really should that really be the top story should the top story really be the racism the far right the possible violence thats coming from the i just think theres a disproportionate my dream is to acknowledge the 1st on that on that attack which is horrible we should be able to condemn it we should be able to be extremely force for against religion in. Religious based hate hate. And violent acts but at the same time have a have a conversation about integration about you know all of these things that make you know i get what youre saying we should have a responsible come discussion about these important issues and be able to condemn im saying thats not really happening in france and would you would you think thats actually happening if you go from here i will tell you something though in 20152016 with a string of terrorist attacks just like no other country in the west and at the end we elected a moderate someone who actually has an inclusive and universal message on this with 70 percent of the population is muslim it is more like you know in a state you have less than one percent muslim you have someone who has been elected president wants to ban them from the u. S. Territory theres a lot of progress to be made i mean i dont think measures to reassure our viewers were better than trouble is not going to go that far but let me ask you this very sort of calm muslim air of london. Could that happen in paris any time soon to see a muslim or of parents of course of course it could happen we have ministers of justice we have key politicians what you think about a muslim practicing muslim area of paris i want to believe absolutely and i would agree with you that it will get worse before it gets better so i think it will happen i honestly think but when you say get worse from what do you mean by worse because if actions are coming we need to distract from actually the problems that are affecting france right now which are social any complex problem we have been having like protests and strikes for a year now i think in november and every time we have a social crisis we also have a huge crisis so at some point i think france we need to rethink what is means to be french today and france will have to choice to accept the fact that today its a diverse country open to the world connected to the world and integrate that into society or be backward keep you know putting aside its people and this will play against our country a moat dream benj well have to leave it there thank you both for joining me on the show and coming on the radio thats our show up from will be back next week. The latest news as it breaks democrats did was they said well have a vote and lay out the procedures Going Forward for the public testimony weve detailed coverage here in town plans meaning Financial Center a place that is usually teeming at shepheards during the weekends and tourists from around the world tend to a 1000 years for this to disintegrate and thats whats choking this city. Russia has jeopardized the United States security interests and we know what you are doing and you will not succeed perceptions from the outside looking in the absence of the picture from the inside. I think russias Foreign Policy is too soft going to the most russian goals to be achieved not peace symbol given all russia all knowledge is either. Of this is aljazeera. Back to this is a news hour a lot from my headquarters in doha coming up in the next 60 minutes brazils jailed former president is free and promising to once again shake up the countrys politics. Indias Supreme Court clears the way for a hindu temple to be built at a site own soul planed by muslims. Also this hour remembering the fall of the wall in germany marks 13 years since
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