Transcripts For ALJAZ NEWSHOUR 20240714

Nato mission in baghdad in iraq we look forward to discussing with a close ally their perspectives on this and how we can look forward to the International Community. Are those about it for this program well be back in a couple minutes with more of the days news and dont forget it will be a big update on the latest situation on the shooting down of the u. S. Drone which isnt just spewed by both the u. S. And iraq thats not. After years of overgrazing the damage caused to the precious grasslands of chile is being revised with one of the worlds biggest ever conservation projects. Theyre pretty emblematic of the patagonians that if theyre plentiful and theyre like this owners then you know that the system is coming back and that they feel no threat works and thats why youre on par 3 wilding patagonia on aljazeera. This is a dialogue im reading about it for us and staying at it on International Media and on t. V. Why should we stop this company with skepticism because theres a lot of it on why everyone has a voice in the of being taken advantage of just because you have a Small Community without any network just huge health join the global conversation announces iraq all they want to do is try to depict. The same kind of debate that we have here in st. They want to take 43000000000 pounds with a weapon that was 6000000000 pounds in committee. Theres no end in war because theres always a small. Really really good business. In essence we in the United States have privatized the old Public Function more shadow on aljazeera. Made a big mistake. Thats donald trump responds to iran shooting down an american drone well have the latest in a live report from washington. Iran says the drone was known to have International Waters and it will take it to the just take the dispute to the United Nations. This is al jazeera live from doha so u. S. President donald trump is warning that iran made a very big mistake after its revolutionary guard to shut down an american drone u. S. Military says iran sought to disrupt americas ability to monitor the Persian Gulf Region this drone was in International Waters clearly we have it all documented its documented scientifically not just words and it made a very bad mistake. Ok. Well find out and. Youll find out youll find. Obviously obviously you know were not going to be talking too much about it were going to find out they made a very big mistake well just to remind you the u. S. Train was shut down early on thursday a bit center on disputing exactly what happened the u. S. Military says a surface to air missile was fired at the Unmanned Aircraft in International Airspace over the strait of hormuz in the arabian gulf its believed the drone was being used for High Altitude surveillance but irans revolutionary guard says the drone violated iranian airspace of a home has gone province so they were well within their rights to attack it. What else has what can we hope that joins us now from washington d. C. And could we tell us more about what the u. S. President has been saying. Yeah its a to pierce the u. S. President too has been many ways in recent days downplaying the escalating tensions between the United States and iran has done kind of one of 2 things not only on twitter did he seem to escalate it when he said essentially that. You know that iran had made a big mistake but then you went to the oval office and he did continue to sort of double down on that well the same time leaving the space that this potentially was all a big accident and following that up with his sort of 2016 Campaign Pledge where you promised the American People that he would get the United States out of what he called endless war so its very hard to calibrate where the mind of the president is right now what we are getting is very strong statements from the pentagon the pentagon is being very clear about the finger pointing saying that this was an unprovoked attack on a u. S. Surveillance asset being very clear about the parameters this took place in a corridor between dubai u. A. E. And muscat oman and also saying that theres no in any way could this be interpreted as as anything else says the United States conducting legitimate surveillance in International Waters given that the United States is arguing that this point of contact was 34 kilometers from iran flat so the United States in the words of donald trump of the Oval Office Just now that they believe this is scientifically documented that iran made a big mistake the president saying that he believes this may not have been the highest command in iran but in fact somebody lower down who in his words was loose and stupid and made a mistake but at the same time also saying that you know when asked directly about a military response whether the u. S. Plans to. Right back he simply said youll soon find out so it leaves the minds of many with the question you know what could happen next the pentagon clearly seemed to be trying to convince the American Public of the potential for a military strike but the president is seems has left room to still try and rule that out but weve been hearing is theres little on capitol hill for any kind of comfort. Yeah and thats really no surprise the latest statement coming from now to pelosi saying that she believed this was a dangerous situation this is something weve been hearing from members of congress for weeks when you look at the ask aleisha that has taken place the finger pointing this taken place from the tribe administration most recently those 1000 troops as of monday deployed to the middle east but of course a whole chain of events the United States providing very grainy video saying that this was proof of a wrong on attacking those 2 tankers in the gulf of oman the designation of the ira to see irans revolutionary guard corps weeks back as a terrorist organization the escalating sanctions by the United States as part of its socalled maximum Pressure Campaign this is making members of congress very nervous that they are very mind of this administration repeatedly it is not the United States in terms of the truck administration that can approve for the United States to go to war it is congress and they feel that they have not been sufficiently brief that the intelligence has not been sufficient and again there is not a great appetite in the United States among the American Public and members of congress are very aware of this given the fact that the American People feel very strongly they were alive to back in 2003 when the u. S. Invaded iraq using faulty intelligence so expect considerable pushback in the coming days and light of these developing events on capitol hill to the administrations claims pointing the finger at iran for this latest incident the shooting down of a u. S. Drone or a Committee Thanks very much about the story the white house whats a picture in tehran will not look good irans foreign minister find these remarks off via twitter he said the u. S. Wages economic terrorism on iran has conducted action against his and now encroaches on alternative we do not seek war but will then lets lead defendant scalias land and waters will take this new. Aggression to the United Nations and show that the u. S. Is lying about International Waters all right lets speak now to a close one of those who joins us on the phone line from tehran and also tell us more about this iranian pushback about one of the problems being say. Well weve heard already from the revolutionary guard and their version of events its quite specific and it does not meet any room to for anybody to believe that there was any error in the downing of this drone over what they say was their airspace the revolution guard say that the drone was brought down near the crew have a bike region which is a. County area near the strait of hormuz now they say that this drone took off from the south of the persian gulf and that it was making its way around the iranian. Southern iranian provinces and then a few hours later it entered iranian airspace and that is when they decided to take it down with. Cyle the iranian revolution guard said that this was something that was mined their borders their land sea and air borders have always been a red line and we heard from the head of the revolutionary guard major general. At an event today where he said that this is a warning to those who think they can. Enter into a new space without consequences essentially that this this is not something their ng is wanted to do not looking for war but they will defend their borders to the best of their ability now the revolutionary guard have also said that they. Went down in the area ras here in your own parents territorial waters they believe that they will they will try to retrieve parts of the drone or whatever they can in the coming days because one of the things they are. Insisting on in these cases is to be able to show that they have actually this drone pieces of it so they will put it on display at make quite a scene of the whole thing to show their strength and their power in protecting orders and that is something that works back and to happen in the coming days because it is so the our own foreign minister said in his tweet. They would take this to the United Nations and show you that the United States is lying about International Waters. Yes certainly theyre adamant that they will provide the evidence. Up to those you want to the side with what they have when they get the evidence but. Certainly even before the foreign minister mentioned this we heard from earlier today that they were suggesting that was the next level that the iranians will launch a formal complaint to the United Nations and take it there and make sure that the u. S. Is held accountable for this and that they will not just get by with this is the 3rd incident that has taken place in this area over the past month or so that were attacked in the gulf of oman americans blame the iranians yet again for those attacks and the lady has adamantly denied any involvement in those and any footage or photographs that was provided by the americans have been denied and dismissed by the iranians so this time i think things are a little bit different it seems like the iranians are. Very very adamant of providing their own evidence and taking it to a body such as the u. S. Also thanks very much live there for the moment speaking the phone line from tehran well speaking alongside dont trump the white house the canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau he had this to say about the situation obviously we were very concerned with the escalation by iran recently we have significant presence in the area including the nato mission in baghdad in iraq we look forward to discussing. Their perspective now we can look forward to the International Community and thats Justin Trudeau what about the russian president Vladimir Putin hes warning the us not to use force against iran but. I want to say it would be a catastrophe for the region at the very least because it would lead to an influx of violence possibly to an increase in the flow of refugees from the region and as we heard from kimberly a little bit earlier before President Trump spoke the u. S. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi said the United States has no appetite for war. I think its a dangerous situation a high tension wires are up in the region. We have to be strong and strategic about how we protect our interests we also cannot be reckless and what we do so would be interesting to see what they have to say whether the i dont think the president wants to go to war theres no at the charge for going to war in our country but its a democrats reaction what about the republican reaction lets hear from a senior republican leader senator Lindsey Graham will have to respond theres one nation on the planet this is not going to give the iranians a pass on their Nuclear Program thats israel israel will at that as a last resort attack to prevent a Nuclear Armed iran will come to their aid heres what theyre trying to do theyre trying to break our will intimidate us to come to the go shooting table the president made an offer to negotiate the response was to attack a japanese tanker the emissary of the person chosen the liberal offer and last night they shot down a drone so heres what iran needs to get ready for severe pain inside their country that their capabilities pale in comparison to ours were not going to let them disrupt navigation of the seas attack our allies and u. S. Interests without paying a price so if theyre itching for a fight theyre going to get what i mean im sure you really do anything and you have your plan or we need the money but you want a lot closer today than we were yesterday and only god knows what tomorrow brings if next week they go back into enrichment. Put them back on a path to a bomb which they were on any way then that escalates the tension between israel and iran if they do anything else against an American Asset and this president doesnt respond like Ronald Reagan and thats the signal to north korea and the entire world world duck so iran fate is in their hands and its up to them to say how this is becoming exactly like when you see us 8 years where you help people understand what just if they really carry it 100 percent if they go back into the enrichment business that puts them an accelerated theft of bombs and israel has to defend itself against an existential threat i am confident we will be there nobody wants to get there im also confident that were going to protect the straits of hormuz and that were going to protect American Military personnel and civilians on the ground im confident if theres a war with iran they lose im confident it would be very devastating to the region will not be pretty dont want to go there but what more do you expect the president do the same as the japanese Prime Minister to try to restart negotiations and they blew up a japanese tanker i dont know what to tell you here and that senior republican leader Lindsey Graham lets bring in jim de whos president of the National Iranian American Council joins us now from washington d. C. Lets talk about the incidence 1st of all it certainly happened there is no doubt about that the shooting down of this u. S. Drone the all humans is over where it happened whats your take on all this. By saying is that we need to get to the bottom of these details before any potential action is taken ministrations credibility on this is so low right now and i think that what weve been seeing is sort of this game of chicken in reverse where the United States is trying to go to iran to do something. Iran is trying to goad the United States into doing something stupid how about is the bottom line all sides agree lets not do something stupid and lets get to the bottom of this before we do something that we cant we cant reverse course on like military strikes the right exactly though i mean all these goading is being taking place chiefly from the United States and sooner or later Something Like this was bound to happen was not. This is actually exactly the playbook of some of the influential folks inside the white house like john bolton of folks like tom cotton in the u. S. Senate this is exactly what this maximum pressure policy was supposed to lead to the idea despite sometimes they say the idea was to put iran under so much pressure that they come back to the negotiating table pleading with the United States to relent and that they will completely change the nature of their regime in exchange this is complete nonsense and i dont think anybody has put that argument forward in good faith and reality the game plan was that you know iran was abiding by the Nuclear Deal Iran was beginning to actually look like you know a quote unquote normal country and this policy was intended to try to draw the worst the worst out of iran and empower the worst elements inside of iran to do things that could then justify a u. S. Escalation and this military strike that people like john bolton like senator tom cotton like secretary of state peo have been talking about for years and now they are on the brink of actually achieving that goal what was your sense of what the president was saying because he seemed to be pushing back on the concept that looking for a conference when he was saying that iran made a mistake he reckoned it was a general someone as he put it he made a mistake he says i have a feeling it was a mistake made by someone who was doing what they shouldnt be doing and just made a conscious. Well i think we are watching donald trump learn about International Diplomacy in real time and it seems like he recognizes that some of this this bluster and this you know this bluffing about what the United States is willing to do and trying to put iran on its back heel how limited that actually is because the iranians are not like north korea they are not looking for a photo op with the United States president and so what i think were seeing is this very confused policy where the left hand isnt talking to the right hand the president isnt necessarily coordinating with john bolton and theres a big question mark who is actually running this policy is it john bolton running the policy of behind the scenes or is it donald trump running the policy by tweets and you know occasional media statements and i dont think anybody knows and i think the white house needs to figure that out pretty quickly before this this goes awry and what about the response of capitol hill so the democrat nancy pelosi saying no ones conflict republican Lindsey Graham can carry on with that but also saying that we are much closer to conflict today than we were yesterday and. Keep pushing the envelope as it were if we dont react well just show the rest of the world north korea etc that we the United States. Yeah i mean its ironic that Lindsey Graham is so worried about the United States his credibility when he supported the United States withdrawing from the Nuclear Accord which was an agreement negotiated by all of the worlds powers in iran think about the message that sends to the rest of the world that the United States is all talk that we cant be bound to our agreements the notion that anybody doubts that the United States military can you know fire some strikes into iran or do whatever it wants thats thats not up for debate what is up for debate is whether this whether the United States is a normal country that hears to its agreements and whether United States is repeating the iraq affair that so badly discredited us Foreign Policy that is really what what is at stake here and im actually pretty disappointed in the response of the democrats who are supposed to be the Opposition Party who you know were elected to be the majority in the house of representatives and who have failed to take real formal steps to rein in this president they know john boltons in the white house they know my pompei of things that bombing iran would be easy and yet they havent passed any legislation to make it clear that donald trump doesnt have the authority to strike iran and even now i see a lot of handwringing the fact of the matter is if this is not if the United States decides they want to strike iran and its not a defensive act its not in response to a direct immediate threat they need to go to congress and Congress Needs to assert that because i dont see them doing that and this is not a time to be sort of cowering and you know looking at the political winds this is we are on the brink of something catastrophic and so i hear the republicans talking very loudly i dont hear the democrats pushing back nearly hard enough. The president of the National Iranian American Council do appreciate your perspective on this and thank you very much. Well another breaking news story were following the u. S. Senate has backed several resolutions opposing president Donald Trumps plan to sell weapons to side arabia and its allies is trying to block trumps move to bypass congress over more than 8000000000. 00 in its join the debate to Senate Minority to Chuck Schumer a reference saudi arabias implication in the murder of the journalist democracy edgy and said more they should be more discussion on selling weapons to the kingdom there now and everyone knows that that doesnt mean you let allies do the most horrible things and just treated as if Nothing Happened but in the wake of such monstrosity that trumpet ministration is proposing another round of billions of dollars in arms sales to saudi arabia well we should at least have the debate about whether thats the right course of action. Well john 100 has been following discussions joins us now from washington d. C. To tell us more about the discussions whats been happening. Well nick in the senate there has been a republican firewall protecting President Trump and we are seeing a crack in that and that is because a handful of republicans have joined democrats in order to vote to block arms sales to saudi arabia the United Arab Emirates and other countries were talking about 8000000000. 00 worth of arms sales and thats significant because saudi arabia was the largest arms exports for the past 4 years from 2014 to 2818. 00 and this is a matter of senators in the u. S. Senate protesting the killing of journalist Jamal Khashoggi a u. S. Resident and a journalist for the Washington Post and the protesting the killing of civilians in the war in yemen this is something on which they disagree with the president and he is almost certain to override their vote they dont seem to have the numbers right now to override and almost certain veto the leader of this Senate Mitch Mcconnell a republican said this is not a good time to start abandoning u. S. Allies like saudi arabia he cited what he says is a growing threat from iran this is what he had to say theres no shortage of productive steps at members disposal but recklessly counseling u. S. Arms sales to cure regional partners is not on the look so the question the senate will soon consider is really those whether will lash out at an imperfect partner and undercut our own average bill cooperation jack around and achieve other important goals or whether well keep our imperfect part of clothes and use our influence whether well push riyadh and away from the United States and push them closer to moscow and measure it or whether well stay engage and help our partners course correct where we can. So does this mean the United States will not sell arms to saudi arabia probably not President Trump is almost certain to veto this measure and unless they can muster 67. 00 votes in the senate and thats considerably more than they have right now they will be unlikely to do so but this is a shot across the bow senators are are showing that theyre not going to go along with the president on absolutely everything theyre upset about what they call aggression by saudi arabia and they dont like the way the Trump Administration is doing business here in may the trumpet ministration invoked an emergency provision in the arms control act to push through arms sales to Saudi Arabia Congress did not like that they are reacting and this is the result of that so this is really a shot across the bow of both the trumpet ministration and saudi arabia and john thanks very much john 100 in reporting there from washington d. C. Meanwhile in britain judges have ruled that government leaders broke the law by allowing weapons sales to saudi arabia to his dog there was a clear risk that weapons find in the war in yemen violated human rights laws the British Government must now evaluate how and where its weapons that supports to saudia use the bucket has this report from london. British weapons sales to saudi arabia currently engaged in a war in yemen are unlawful the verdict of one of britains highest courts. The case was brought by the campaign against arms trade it says the government license arms sales to saudi despite a risk the weapons could be used to kill civilians. In this terrible war its time to. End the policies which have allowed to continue for so long the ruling doesnt mean the u. K. Has to stop selling weapons to saudi but it does mean the government will need to scrutinize what british may weapons are used for the government says it will challenge the ruling and freeze issuing any new arms export licenses to saudi while it considers the decision to disagree with the judgment and will seek permission to appeal alongside this we are carefully considering the implications of the judgment for Decision Making while we do this we will not grant any new licenses for export to saudi arabia and its Coalition Partners which might be used in the conflict in the. Sun are yemen october 26th scene and the aftermath of an airstrike on a Community Hall the building was packed with civilians attending a funeral when the airstrike happened 140. 00 people died the Saudi Arabian Led Coalition later admitted it launched the attack claiming wrong information. Since the start of the yemen conflict in 2015 the u. K. Slice and 6000000000. 00 in arms sales to saudi including fighter jets and precision guided missiles exports the core beliefs of course indiscriminate deaths. Saudi arabia says the deployment of british may weapons in yemen is legitimate and that only iran stands to benefit from ending british weapons exports to saudi. Public scrutiny of british arms exports to saudi has been growing in recent years the government under my. Mounting pressure to prioritize yemen spiraling humanitarian crisis but the u. K. Also has lucrative weapons deals to protect British Defense company b. A east systems makes 50 percent of its annual profits from sales to saudi 13000000000. 00 deal to sell 48. 00 euros fine to typhoon jets the country is pending the ruling also has implications on other countries that sell weapons to saudi including for arms it boosted it sales to the kingdom by 30 percent in 2018. The death toll in yemen is nearing 100000 people it is time secam pain is for britain to stem the flow of weapons and put people before profits leave. London. Now theyre a silly the u. K. Conservative party has come down to a final 2 contenders that Boris Johnson and jeremy hunt one current one former foreign secretary thats the choice facing the conservative party after the latest vote by m. P. s johnson led with 160 votes in the 5th ballots again 77 for jeremy hunt the environment secretary michael gove with 75 votes was eliminated the decision on who will lead the party and who will become Prime Minister importantly now goes to more than 120000. 00 conservative Party Members so its. Professor of law and government to school joins us live now from durham. Whats your sense of where were at were down to 2 burros johnson has long been regarded the favorite he won pretty easily. Can he be picked at the post. Well i think the result was very interesting for a couple reasons one it suggests that half of tory m. P. s while he said a big victory half of tory m. P. s dont want him i mean the other half were largely split between michael gove and jeremy hunt and jerry and only got on to the ballots over a month ago by by 2 votes and theres already a lot of concern that maybe some of the m. P. s have been backing Boris Johnson were plotting to give their secrets anonymous votes to gerry hunt to keep michael gove off the final ballot why because it would have been particularly damaging reports johnson to go head to head against like over his fellow cochairman of the successful but leave campaign that saw. That sort of shock victory i think this is going to be an easy contest reports johnson to win i think hes very popular with the grassroots in the conservative party but i think there will be a lot of damage done to him during the next weeks ahead in this contest which are beyond beyond his is seen as a more stable hands hes been in cabinet hes been stuck in trying to make a success wheres johnson quit the leadership right after running for the leadership right up to the press at votes he quit the cabinet to soon as there was a deal which he claimed did it like and didnt want to be a part of and so these differences i think will play out as he might well make it to number 10 i suspect he will but he wont be there for very long ok what would expect a little bit you say he will join we hope will inflict damage what kind of damage and why would it matter if boris wins anyway. No the absolutely right i think that there will be a lot of damage on boris because Boris Johnson was was a fairly poor foreign secretary he had no positive accomplishments is his most memorable moment in that brief role of about a year was was a gaffe claiming that it british citizen was a journalist when she was not and that statement that he gave falsely was used to imprison their british citizen whos in prison right now in iran where is jeremy hunt has not had any such gaffes or problems during his time as foreign secretary and theyve been in the role about as long as boris a lot of boriss supporters will world will try to remind people about how he had won in london and how successful he was in that city dominated by labor but he doesnt have that poll in london anymore one of the latest polls asked voters would you buy a used car from Boris Johnson and 56 percent of the country dont ask me who comes up with these questions with the 6 percent of the public said they would not so hes an unpopular figure actually with the country of the very popular with his tribe and i think its this difference between being a former foreign secretary who quit when the when the going got tough versus the current foreign secretary who is stuck with the cabinet but i dont think it will be enough to make sure me on when i think it will kind of draw attention to the times that Boris Johnson has quit is not the kind of follow through on his principles other than trying to promote his own career and i think that will damage him nationally in a National General election are when i was here if you had by covering Boris Johnson but i will leave it to work thanks very much deep in cuba. Pleasure. This is and is are these are the top stories and u. S. President donald trump is warning that iran made a very big mistake after its revolutionary guard shot down an american drone the u. S. Military says iran sought to disrupt americas ability to monitor the persian the arabian gulf region. This drone was in International Waters clearly we have it all documented its documented scientifically not just words and made a very bad mistake ok. Well find out. Well find out well find. Obviously obviously you know were not going to be talking too much about it were going to find out theyve made a very big mistake. In washington the u. S. Senate has backed several resolutions opposing president trying to sell weapons to saudi arabia and its an iraqi allies who is trying to block trumps attempt to bypass congress of a more than 8000000000 dollars in sales theres a brief headlines got more news coming out right off the inside story by fidel. The gruesome details of how the saudi journalist Jamal Khashoggi was butchered by zain compline treatments have now been revealed in a u. N. Investigation report it demands an International Inquiry to find those responsible at the highest level so who will hold the saudi authorities to account this is inside story. Thanks. Thanks. Thanks. Thanks. Hello and welcome to the program on Martin Dennis now the state of saudi arabia is responsible for the murder of democracy thats the conclusion of the investigation into the journalist death a un special rapporteur has revealed in grisly detail how saudi agents planned the killing and carved up his body inside the saudi consulate in istanbul last october and that says agnes kalama could not have been done without the knowledge of senior members of government and the crown Prince Mohammed bin sound man democracy was a columnist for the Washington Post hed moved to the us because he feared his writing would get him arrested at home he maintained until the end that he wasnt a dissident he just wanted the freedom to write his opinions lets hear from 4 months before he was so brutally murdered. I began to feel the pressure so i just decided to leave before it is too late and yes a couple of months that id left friends of mine where i listed many people i know throughout travel so i sense goodness that i did that a little boy safe or at least i would have been told at my home right now but from trouble at least listed and thats the thing i want in my retirement im 60 years old and they want to enjoy life and they want to be free to speak what my country. So that was a man himself now here are some of the main points in the un investigators report it says there is credible evidence that the state of saudi arabia was responsible for the quote premeditated and extra judicial killing it recommends further investigation of high level saudi officials including the crown prince abdullahs kalama says evidence of the crime couldnt have been destroyed without mohammed bin sandmans knowledge shes calling for sanctions against him and his assets until he is found to be innocent and she wants the trial of 11 suspects who societies say is underway in the kingdom to be suspended ms cullum are says its an International Crime that could come under the principle of universal jurisdiction meaning that the suspects could be investigated anywhere in the world thanks. Ratliff introduce our guest now in istanbul we have mehmet chairlift whos managing editor of the daily 7 newspaper in washington d. C. Courtney raj who is advocacy director for the committee to protect journalists to see p. J. And joining us from islamabad in pakistan toby cadman an International Human rights lawyer welcome to you all but mehmet can i start with you in istanbul this is obviously the location of this heinous crime turkey has welcomed the report what is turkey going to do next. Well turkey has welcomed the report and this is actually in a way it confirms turkeys position from the 1st day the fact that an International Investigation has been lounge and that it needs to be you know discussed at the International Level is something that turkey has pushed forward from Going Forward from from today on or from says the report has been released turkey will continue this added to it in this position that Jamal Khashoggi case is not something that we can isolate and we can keep it in saudi arabia it is an International Incident that took place in turkey and its an international its an International Issue because you know this is something that saudi arabia has done beyond its borders against a dissident journal absolutely man it was forward to make sure i absolutely these are the points very clearly made in the special rabbitohs report my question to you is why what is preventing turkey from going to need it to the United Nations and requesting this International Impartial inquiry. Well turkey has taken steps actually to do that turkey has been discussing with its allies and and partners to make sure that this invested investigation and this case is not left aside and but i mean the fact that tookie has been taking these steps is is you know not i mean we cant say that turkey has not done anything yet and and he will not do Going Forward. But i want to also mention that turkey cannot do this by itself for it to be a strong case in the International Community in need support of key players in the International Community so that the case is not just some to in turkey again you know this case is not turning into something thats kind of versus riyadh saw to it you want to be very diligent and very careful when it comes to making sure that disc case is handled but at the same time they keep their diplomatic relations with saudi arabia instead of foreign aggressive confrontation so what it will do is something that the Foreign Ministry or anchor or will decide but turkey has not been idle when it comes to taking this to an International Level right and i think it will keep pushing for this all right and coming to courtney now in washington in many ways you can hear from what mehmet was saying this kind of balancing act that many of those interested in this case are trying to maintain many people see saudi arabia as a key ally particularly western as a kohls none more so the way you are in washington d. C. Where President Trump has a personal relationship with mohamed bin sound man and other members of the royal family what do you expect the americans to do in the light of this report. Well the report makes it clear that the u. S. Has a responsibility to investigate and to open hearings and to hold those accountable including at the highest level responsible the report actually says that the crown Prince Mohammed bin salmaan should be held responsible until there is evidence that he was not actually responsible given the power structure in saudi arabia and the unlikelihood that this could have happened without his you know him being involved a finding that echoes what a u. S. Intelligence report already found last year now what do i expect in light of the arms deal that President Trump is pushing through i dont expect much from the administration i think well have to rely on congress this means that Congress Needs to definitely hold hearings and demand that the intelligence reports related to what was known by whom when what sort of signals intelligence was their duty to warn needs to be revealed in the report agnus says that she cannot clarify whether or not there was sufficient information in advance tyree duty to warn so these these this needs to be made public and weve actually sued under a freedom of information request with the night center to reveal this information all right coming to you to be in islamabad. So the report is is is pretty clear in many ways but its not exactly the smoking gun is it whose responsibility is it under International Law to now pick up the battle and launch this International Impartial inquiry that the report express equals full. Well i think 1st of all its important to say that this is a damning report is one of the strongest or strong as worded reports that ive seen coming from a special rapporteur. But that is indicative of the situation under review so one would expect it to to set out. Its not a criminal investigations as important to 2 and allies what the special rapporteur actually has a mandate in jurisdiction to look at and what she is recommending is that there is an entire International Criminal investigation or there was a criminal investigation so its important that its now to take into the next few you asked the guest in in turkey or what will the text authorities are going to do well of course its expected that turkey will want to could coordinate that coordinate this with other states to ensure that there is broad support for this but it needs to go to the United Nations through the Security Council a Human Rights Council to to request the formation of an investigative body because it now needs to move to a criminal investigation and then that can potentially lead to a process of justice and accountability be something thats on the national or International Level that remains to be seen sorry to interrupt does it not need to be requested does the process not actually need to be triggered by a member state of the United Nations the u. N. Secretary general has said that it he said that hes waiting for a member state to come and request the very investigation inquiry that were talking about. Absolutely and this is something that ive spoken on i was there before by saying that he needs to make a formal request for the formation of an Investigative Committee to look into this we would hope that other states would support this of course we have i have already heard about the diplomatic relations frankly my position is tough you cant have it both ways you cant make statements of condemnation and demand action but then want to retain diplomatic ties with a state thats carried out at an execution of this magnitude in his country because you have a ways but also the same time we want to see country countries like the United Kingdom france germany even the United States i appreciate we should expect too much for the United States under a truck ministration but at same time all of these states that claim to the cape for the rule of law and the protection of human rights of fundamental freedoms and particularly human rights defenders and previous russian well they need they they need to step forward absolutely hate to put this on the i dont believe they can i dont see nations can i just go to the i can see you disagreeing rather emphatically whats your point so well i mean i think the point that this report makes clear is that the secretary general has it in his power to launch a criminal investigation thats very clear and yes his findings is that this idea that somehow we are waiting for a formal request by turkey what does that really mean it is a she actually uses the word absurd to describe this kind of equivocation so i think what makes clear is that the u. N. Secretary general has a responsibility given the International Crime that has been committed to open a criminal investigation and that is very clear in her report so this ongoing you know discussion about whether a member state needs to make a formal request or not you know weve heard many many comments from Member States about the need for an international. Suggestion we now have a report that shows why the secretary general has that power so now we need to the un to step up and do its job and open a criminal investigation which weve been calling for from the outset all right and mehmet its not in months since this crime took place in istanbul which is a quite a long time given the nature and the high profile level of interest in the case do you think that perhaps is this ambivalence or a perceived ambivalence on the part of the turkish authorities to go the extra mile trying to maintain this this balance between with bilateral relations with riyadh as well as proclaiming the. Alarm and and discontent about whats going on do you think its that that might be in many ways preventing this case being resolved. I think its a very unfair to say that took this position as and divil and in this case but at the same time we should acknowledge that turkey has been one of the perhaps the most vocal member state at the united name of the United Nations about this case and indeed your National Committee of president out of the on has been one of the most vocal about this Foreign Ministry has been one of the most vocal but and turkey has not pushed this you know taken the case today an International Arena off its table at any time in the past 9 months but it is also i think its very unfair to just narrow down to turkeys narrow this down to turkeys job when he did that and went back a piece in itself and but didnt happen that way i understand that i understand that but it is also this is a case that we cannot just simply narrow it down to turkey saudi arabia relationship or a case between turkey and saudi arabia International Community and Member States of the United States have a very very tough job to actually own this case and support turkey if you had received the turkey had received a genuine support of e. U. Member states or of the United Nation Member States. At a whole turkey would have done that long time ago but i mean turkey also has its own interest that he needs to protect when it comes to its relationship with saudi arabia having said that we cannot by any means say that turkey turkey is put turkish position or unconscious position has been a weak one or an ambivalent want to again has been one what else can they do at this point as i think. To expect what they can do is just i mean to only expect International Community support in turkish position and when it comes in the case ok saudi arabia. Specifically in the report. Agnes calmar she refers to this case is being suitable to be looked at within the concept of International Jurisdiction what does that mean because its clearly not just a domestic issue as the saudis have been treating it up and up until now what does it mean when she says it could be pursued under the terms of International Jurisdiction. Yes i think the special rapporteur is actually made a number of comments as to what your stiction is available and shes mentioned universal jurisdiction has already been discussed she is calling for International Accountability now one of the one of the questions that has previously been raised is whether the formation of an international Investigative Committee could could lead to the creation of International Accountability that would of course have to be a special mechanism as has been discussed previously the International Criminal court would have no jurisdiction over matters such as this so it would need to be a separate body that would be created very much like the special tribunal for lebanon or potentially the the the special chambers for kosovo which has recently been created in the hague so it would need to be something something very very new and thats going to require a great deal of support from Member States to to to effectively to support such an initiative. Going back to very quickly if i may to to qualify the answer as to whether the u. N. Can actually do anything without states a poor state Initiative Speaker in in washington is quite right that you dont have to sit back and wait that wasnt the point i was trying to make the point is that for initiatives such as this you are going to require International Support Member States support to get an initiative off the ground that doesnt mean that the u. N. Should sit back and do nothing unless turkey initiated this but the special repertoire in her report is quite clear on that on what the responsibilities are and frankly many of us have been calling for this for 4 months right action needs be taken but youve got to youve got to look at the practical realities of how you get off the ground how its going to be supported what its mandate is going to be. For that you need to have state support you cant you cant just do it or sold off of the initiative right even game that would be the ideal solution all right courtney so from what were hearing the next step to be taken would require a great deal of effort concerted effort on the part of the International Community not just turkey on its own when were talking about the United States which of course is the major player the major Global Player if theres an 8000000000 dollar arms deal in the works that the white house is trying to get through despite congress and many of the other western countries have been quite new to it havent they in terms of this this report and its findings how much appetite do you think that the westerners in particular but the International Community more generally will have to take on saudi arabia because thats what its going to going to require isnt it and saudi arabia of course is a major Regional Power. Absolutely i mean i think youve hit the nail on the head not only is it a Regional Power but it is also a donor country and supports many countries around the world so its not only the western countries that are finding it difficult to speak out. I think also in you know agness report she talks about the importance that saudi arabia needs to send a signal that it is committed to finding justice and the non repetition of this type of crime and she suggests a couple of ways to do this one is that this ridiculous closed door trial where we dont even know who is on trial should be stopped and we understand that there may be Security Council member countries who have been able to observe that country that socalled trial and nothing has been revealed about that 2nd we have seen some European Countries talk about restricting arms deals they have put sanctions on some officials but it is not reaching the high level officials according to i guess as report so it is important that the you know how to state that those in power in the country are held responsible and its going to be challenging because of the dynamics of the saudi u. S. Relationship but we have seen some efforts in congress to assert their role and ensure that the United States plays a leading role in and ensuring these norms and just a point on turkey you know turkey has really leveraged this you know what happened in their consulate in the consulate there to trickle out information you know they provided information for agness report but theyre also you know using this to whitewash the fact that they are the leading jailer of journalists and i think its very important that we see and im mess as a report she recommends that turkey and saudi arabia release all of the journalists and activists and political dissidents who are in prison in those countries right and thats absolutely something we can see the International Community get behind right ok message coming by. Actually that in istanbul i mean there is implied criticism within the report not only for his record on on jailing jenice but also for the. Judicial process the investigation thats been around thats been carried out to date she said that that wasnt really up to International Standards but let me put it to you the backdrop to all of this of course is one of mounting tension in the gulf involving all of the players that were actually talking about the United States and saudi arabia raby of course is pivotal given that how do you think turkey would react if nothing of any consequence really comes about is as a result of this report because it could quite easily be just kicked down the road for another time look i think to answer this question we need to we need to understand in a way why. Carry out this you know this execution in turkey in istanbul 1st of all i think there was a message given to turkey that you know in the post arab spring the fact that turkey sided with the people against the monarchs i think that message given to turkey hey look you cannot side with the people or the dissidents secondly give a message to the dissidents from many different arab nations that have been in turkey that you look wherever you go you will not be saved 3rd it also i think if they are trying to give a message to rivals such as iran look i am keep a ball to actually confront even with a super power i mean with the power in the region such as turkey so i am capable and i am powerful so when it comes to. What took you will do if this if so do your obeah once to confront would turkey aggressively. You know in in similar to what happened in istanbul in the consulate i think turkey will also take its own acts. Ns to face the confrontation but this is not as far as i know is what took you once trying to accomplish what saudi arabia turkey wants to achieve a stable relationship with saudi arabia and turkey wants stability in the region that will serve you know serve the interests of all players ok that is not so its own so is i need to jump in because we are running out of time and i want to get back to you and be but fest you call me if nothing comes as a result of this report what are the implications then for gen this around the world look this is this is really problematic that we already have no meaningful action 9 months after a brazen murder and a 3rd Party Country by a state we know is now responsible for that this has sent a very very chilling signal to journalists working around the world weve already seen that the past several years since the arab spring was mentioned have really been the most dangerous on record for journalists with record numbers of journalists being murdered 80 percent rise last year and record numbers of journalists being imprisoned so the fact that Jamal Khashoggi has been murdered in cold blood no one has been held responsible and ongoing impunity sends a signal that even if we know who did it even if we know responsibility lies were still going to give that and if it were still going to get off scot free how does a chilling message write to be funny to you and if you could be really really brief please what would be the implications of the up holding of international norms. Well i think what courtney said is chilling that is the most in port thing here if we do nothing it is setting a very very dangerous precedent states will all see that they can carry out acts like this and this is this is one of the worst things that weve seen but i think we also need to look at some of the very important points that that this has has brought her and her report its not just about criminal accountability its setting up an institutional